Wikipedia:Help desk

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February 19

Radio programs/programmes

Is there a style for radio programme discussions regarding the order of its title, date, host/presenter, participants, series title and the station broadcasting it?

Is there a more appropriate page for this question? Mcljlm (talk) 00:16, 19 February 2025 (UTC)

Do you perhaps mean a style for radio programme articles? If you want to ask about such articles you might try Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Radio, somnolent though it seems to be. -- Hoary (talk) 00:51, 19 February 2025 (UTC)

I should have said Hoary how to mention them in external links. Mcljlm (talk) 02:00, 19 February 2025 (UTC)

Help talk:Citation Style 1? -- Hoary (talk) 02:08, 19 February 2025 (UTC)

@Mcljlm You could try using the template {{Cite AV media}}, which includes an external link if needed, and will put its many possible parameters in an accepted sequence for display. Mike Turnbull (talk) 12:30, 19 February 2025 (UTC)

Paid resources access

I previously remember that Wikipedia offered access to its more active editors to resources normally only accessible through paid subsciptions, i.e. newspapers. Could someone remind me how to get access to this service? SMargan (talk) 00:32, 19 February 2025 (UTC)

WP:The Wikipedia Library. * Pppery * _{it has begun...} 00:34, 19 February 2025 (UTC)`

@* Pppery * Talk - Thanks for you prompt reply. I will check this link out and report back if I have any problems. SMargan (talk) 00:58, 19 February 2025 (UTC)

Multiple or Dual 'Info Boxes'

I am currently doing work on a School whose initial building is a heritge building. The article has an 'info box' of a heritage building, however, because it still functions as a school, a school 'info box' would also be approriate. Is there any way of having two 'info boxes' for the same Wikipedia article, or at least a dual 'info box', i.e. for both the heritage build and school functionality of the subject of the Wikipedia article? Thanks in advance for your time in answering this question? SMargan (talk) 00:56, 19 February 2025 (UTC)

Certain infoboxes have a "module" or "embedded" field where another infobox can be embedded as a part of them. Check the template page of the two infobox you wish to use for detail. Usually the child infobox would just be written into the "module" or "embedded" field and include the "embed=yes" or "child=yes" parameter. Tutwakhamoe (talk) 01:13, 19 February 2025 (UTC)

@Tutwakhamoe (talk) - Thank you for your efforts! Yes, it appears that the "Heritgage Building" 'info box' does have a "Embedded" field for that particular functionality. That is precisely what I wanted to know, and your advice has helped me considerably. SMargan (talk) 10:44, 19 February 2025 (UTC)

Wrong status?

Hi, I was scrolling down the List of companies of Canada, finding articles to add logos to, and I saw the Bard Ventures article, and it says it's alive but the article says it's defunct. I think it should be updated to say it is defunct on it's status. Liam9287 (talk) 01:13, 19 February 2025 (UTC)

This is also the case for Ben Moss Jewellers, as I have scrolled a little more. Liam9287 (talk) 01:18, 19 February 2025 (UTC)

Oh, wait I confused that with another article, sorry. Ben Moss Jewellers is correctly labelled. Liam9287 (talk) 01:19, 19 February 2025 (UTC)

You're welcome to edit it yourself. If you have a question about how to do something in an edit, you can ask it here. --Slowking Man (talk) 04:19, 19 February 2025 (UTC)

OK, thank you1 Liam9287 (talk) 19:49, 19 February 2025 (UTC)

how to highlight text

I am able in the editing section to highlight text with colored background, but it does not show up as such in the Preview section, nor if I publish it, in the final version. What is the secret to highlighting text, and making it transfer to the edited talk page? Kenfree (talk) 01:38, 19 February 2025 (UTC)

Assuming that you're using Template:Background color, make sure that you've filled out all the required parameters (color and text) in order. Tutwakhamoe (talk) 02:10, 19 February 2025 (UTC)

@Kenfree: It's possible you are seeing syntax highlighting for editors which isn't meant to produce highlighting in the saved page. Please post a link to the page and describe where you want a colored background. PrimeHunter (talk) 14:11, 19 February 2025 (UTC)

Chinese political ideology templates

There's some disagreement over how to structure and categorize the information in a few related templates, given the disputed political status of things over there, which Wikipedia templates might have a hard time putting neatly into the little boxes. To help out, please see: Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_China#Political_ideology_templates. Manuductive (talk) 04:27, 19 February 2025 (UTC)

'Edits' section of mobile app

Ever since downloading the Wikipedia mobile app, I've been wondering whether/how the data (including 'Edit quality' and total edit views) shown in the 'Edits' section of the app (above ‘Suggested edits’) can be accessed through a browser, and also how the 'Edit quality' rating, as given in this section of the app, is calculated.

I would have liked to include a screen grab of the 'Edits' section of the app to clarify what I'm talking about, but I can't upload an image to this post so the following text is a transcription of my statistics as given in the app:

Edits

Contributions		240
Views			212658
Last edited		18/02/2025
Edit quality		Perfect

I can access my raw statistics (eg. individual page views, number of live vs. deleted edits, etc.) using Xtools, but I'm still wondering whether (and, if so, why) the summarised data given in the app is not also provided in the browser.

I'm not sure that the help desk is the right place to be asking this, but if you can point me in the right direction or give me an idea of a possible reason why there's this difference between the app and the browser version, that would be appreciated! :) Pineapple Storage (talk) 15:38, 19 February 2025 (UTC)

For a list of features in the apps that are not in the browser version, see mw:Wikimedia Apps/Android FAQ. and mw:Wikimedia Apps/iOS FAQ. The Android page has a section mw:Wikimedia Apps/Android FAQ#Contribution history, which I think includes what you are talking about. (As far as I can see, the iOS app does not have this). It doesn't explicitly say that this information is not available in the web interface, but I've never seen it. ColinFine (talk) 17:19, 19 February 2025 (UTC)

@ColinFine Thank you for these links! I wasn't aware of the MW:Wikimedia Apps FAQs, so this is really helpful. Pineapple Storage (talk) 12:32, 20 February 2025 (UTC)

I've been puzzled by those statistics for a while. The page views seem to jump around wildly (I've had a 6-figure number followed half a hour later by 4-figure one, for example). I can say, though, that reverting one of my own edits can make the "quality" go down, as can being caught in a rollback that removes earlier vandalism. I feel the app statistics are pretty meaningless without any indication of how they're calculated. Musiconeologist (talk) 22:23, 19 February 2025 (UTC)

@Musiconeologist Glad to hear I'm not the only one who's been confused by this! Those details are useful to know, thank you. I agree, it would be helpful to have access to a bit more information about how these figures are calculated! Pineapple Storage (talk) 12:35, 20 February 2025 (UTC)

Updating some SVGs for dark mode support?

Is there a style guide for images and artwork, particularly how we're handling the transition to supporting both dark and light themes? A lot of articles have SVG artwork that's black-on-transparent and thus invisible on the dark theme. And I was going to ask how to fix this, perhaps there's a way to make SVGs the same color as the text, or maybe resort to giving these SVGs a white canvas. idk.

Examples: Elder Futhark#Rune names, Runes#Younger Futhark (9th to 11th centuries) NomadicVoxel (talk) 18:30, 19 February 2025 (UTC)

@NomadicVoxel:Ouch. The mechanics of adding a white background to an individual image is simple (download, open in inkscape, add a white rectangle the same size as the page and lower it to the "bottom", upload as a new version of the same image). That's easy. It's even easy to write a program to do the update on a image on your computer. Finding all of the thousands of images that need this is hard, and doing this thousands times is tedious. I do not have the skills automate the find, download, and upload steps. Maybe ask at WP:VPT? -Arch dude (talk) 19:37, 19 February 2025 (UTC)

The catch is, automating it wouldn't always be the best option. There are some SVG images that do automatically adapt to the dark or light theme. How could you programmatically detect those? And, then there's the question of which ones are best for that approach, versus adding a canvas. idk.

I'll ask at the pump, thanks. NomadicVoxel (talk) 18:58, 20 February 2025 (UTC)

Well, idk about automating it like you said, but someone at the pump pointed out a CSS tag for this. class=skin-invert-image.

Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)#Updating SVG art for dark theme support?

Help:Pictures#Dark mode NomadicVoxel (talk) 00:07, 21 February 2025 (UTC)

List of rail accidents in the United Kingdom 9th December 1970

This accident happened at Chivers Occupation Crossing between Shippea Hill and Lakenheath.

It is referenced in the "Railway Accidents Report to the secretary of state for the environment on the safety record of the railways in Great Britain during the year 1970".

Ref Number: SBN 11 550040 5

The report is in section 123.

Does anyone know about this report, where I can find a copy or is it available online ? or do you happen to have a copy of the report ?

The accident is also mentioned in the published report, Page 4 Paragraph 5. https://www.railwaysarchive.co.uk/documents/DoT_Chivers1976.pdf

I need this information to be able to add the accident to the "List of railway accident in the United Kingdom" Isimmons1 (talk) 19:48, 19 February 2025 (UTC)

It is indeed in very few libraries: OCLC 226122951. -- Hoary (talk) 08:30, 20 February 2025 (UTC)

Thank you very much. I can't believe you found it.

It's a shame it's not available online. Isimmons1 (talk) 10:49, 20 February 2025 (UTC)

For future reference: You helpfully specified the SBN; I preceded that with 0 for the (old-style) ISBN (thus ISBN 0-11-550040-5); I fed that to Worldcat. Easy! -- Hoary (talk) 11:21, 20 February 2025 (UTC)

Ahh Cool!! thank you for the tip. Isimmons1 (talk) 11:33, 20 February 2025 (UTC)

February 20

Visual editor adding nowiki when it should not

Resolved

 – Templates can be annoying --Slowking Man (talk) 16:09, 21 February 2025 (UTC)

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Marine_cloud_brightening&diff=1276727474&oldid=1276726622

Is this a known bug and if so how do I get round it please? Chidgk1 (talk) 11:57, 20 February 2025 (UTC)

Duh my mistake sorry - I had a cite error Chidgk1 (talk) 12:47, 20 February 2025 (UTC)

Image size

Enhanced Games logo

I'm trying to make the leadimage at Enhanced Games bigger with the |upright= parameter, but it doesn't work. Help? Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 17:43, 20 February 2025 (UTC)

@Gråbergs Gråa Sång: WP:PICSIZE says: "In the case of images with captions, if the image is already smaller than the requested size, then the image retains its original size (it is not enlarged)." {{Image frame}} can place text below the image similar to a file caption. I used this here: {{Image frame|width=200|content=[[File:Enhanced Games logo.jpg|200px]]|caption=Enhanced Games logo}}. PrimeHunter (talk) 20:58, 20 February 2025 (UTC)

Brilliant, thanks! Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 21:10, 20 February 2025 (UTC)

Is there a rule against using quotations?

Dear Sir/Madam,

I am writing to ask whether I am not allowed to use quotations. In this reversion: ( https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=History_of_concubinage_in_the_Muslim_world&diff=1276768616&oldid=1276211878 ) (I am referring to multiple reversions so I use the whole bit. If you wish to look particularly please go into the History page here: ( https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=History_of_concubinage_in_the_Muslim_world&action=history ).) I was accused by one person of using quotations instead of prose. I thought that was absurd so I reverted it (I got blocked for reverting in another page where I went over three and the other person insisted the first person was correct as can be seen here: ( https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Islamic_views_on_concubinage&action=history ).) but he or she insisted and got me blocked. He or she has not cited any rule on Wikipedia so I am assuming there are none but has now even cited me for vandalism here: ( Wikipedia:Administrator intervention against vandalism#User-reported ) which Thankfully has not gotten through (In any case, I was not edit-warring.). I am a bit confused because what I wrote was not vandalism. I quoted an academic source, cited it appropriately and kept it short. My style of editing does include a lot of quotes but I try to keep it short. I have had tiffs with other editors but I tend to accept them as they constructively edit (They delete some things but they acknowledge my quotation or addition is accurate and well cited and form it better to suit Wikipedia.). So what I need help in is quotations. If I have not broken a rule then I may go to the vandalism page myself because this is absurd.

I hope I have been doing well.

Yours Faithfully,

John Not Real Name

Postscript. I include links so that the context is clear. John Not Real Name (talk) 18:25, 20 February 2025 (UTC)

Copy and pasting comes with a few concerns as outlined at Wikipedia:Copying text from other sources and WP:OVERQUOTING. Moxy🍁 18:31, 20 February 2025 (UTC)

The Wikipedia policy is that articles should not use copyright material where it is possible to use non-copyrighted material, which is explained in the Wikipedia:Non-free content guideline. TSventon (talk) 18:43, 20 February 2025 (UTC)

Does this apply to open-access books? John Not Real Name (talk) 18:50, 20 February 2025 (UTC)

Open-access does not mean not copyrighted/freely licensed. And even if it did, there's the issue of plagiarism. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 19:56, 20 February 2025 (UTC)

Oh okay. Thank You for the clarification. I am quoting my sources meticulously. I mean if people cannot figure out what I am citing they Edit: "need" their heads checked. John Not Real Name (talk) 16:08, 21 February 2025 (UTC)

Frustration can be understandable, but suggesting people need to get their heads checked is not acceptable. (Oh...and you might want to proofread your comments if you want to sound smug.) --Onorem (talk) 16:12, 21 February 2025 (UTC)

No...I was writing that if people cannot figure out my citation then they would need their heads checked. I never wrote anyone actually did (No-one has accused me of that.). Thank You for noticing that. I shall correct it. John Not Real Name (talk) 16:15, 21 February 2025 (UTC)

Again. Suggesting people need to get their heads checked is not acceptable. WP:NPA --Onorem (talk) 16:20, 21 February 2025 (UTC)

I was not suggesting one of you or anyone who replied with me did because none of you have suggested my citation is bad. It was a general statement. That category does not apply. John Not Real Name (talk) 16:22, 21 February 2025 (UTC)

It does apply...just like it did when you called "some people" imbecilic after you were unblocked. It always applies. Making it a generic statement doesn't make it acceptable. --Onorem (talk) 16:28, 21 February 2025 (UTC)

Yeah, okay. In deference to the rules I shall retract that statement then. Playground rules, I shall abide by. John Not Real Name (talk) 16:38, 21 February 2025 (UTC)

If my quotations are short would that be okay? John Not Real Name (talk) 18:54, 20 February 2025 (UTC)

Hello, John Not Real Name, there is no rule against using direct quotations but they should be used sparingly, should be brief and should constitute a small percentage of the prose content in the article. Wikipedia articles should be summaries not quote farms. Wikipedia's goal is to be free content to the maximum practical extent, allowing very limited fair use of non-free content. A quote from anything published in recent decades (95 years in the US and many other countries) is copyrighted and non free. It is policy to limit that usage. Best practice is to summarize and paraphrase such content. A section of an article should never consist entirely or largely of quotations. The best use of brief, attributed quotations is in cases where the language is so unique and creative that it cannot be paraphrased without losing its impact. The complete guidance is at WP:QUOTATIONS.

One of the editors who reverted you is Diannaa, a long time administrator who is a widely recognized expert on copyright, plagiarism and proper use of quotations on Wikipedia. I trust her judgment. You should too. Cullen328 (talk) 19:19, 20 February 2025 (UTC)

He or she never appealed to copyright though. He or she just stated that I could use prose instead. John Not Real Name (talk) 16:05, 21 February 2025 (UTC)

As was said, she is an expert on the proper use of quotations, not just of copyright violation. StarryGrandma (talk) 16:15, 21 February 2025 (UTC)

Well if there was no copyright violation I am less worried about my style. John Not Real Name (talk) 16:16, 21 February 2025 (UTC)

John Not Real Name, persisting with excessive use of quotations after having the standards explained to you would be disruptive editing. Those who repeatedly engage in disruptive editing get blocked. Be aware of that. Cullen328 (talk) 18:36, 21 February 2025 (UTC)

Entirely tangentially, there's a way to avoid he or she without needing to know someone's gender in advance: {{gender:user |male version |female version |unspecified version}} chooses which text to display based on the preference they've entered. For example, ''{{gender:Musiconeologist |he is |she is |they are}}'' gives he is. (I don't know how widely used this is—I found it the other day, and rather like it. It's a parser function, not a template.) Musiconeologist (talk) 18:10, 21 February 2025 (UTC)

question re article ideas

hi there. here is a more general question. what would be a good place to ask for feedback from others about a new item, such as an article or a navbox? i know that one good place would be a related wikiproject. would the village pump be okay, for that purpose, such as on the ideas tab? thanks. Sm8900 (talk) 21:25, 20 February 2025 (UTC)

Try the article’s discussion page Pablothepenguin (talk) 00:49, 21 February 2025 (UTC)

Sm8900, the Ideal lab is for general Wikipedia issues, not for specific article ideas. You can always ask here at the Help Desk, or at the Teahouse. Cullen328 (talk) 03:22, 21 February 2025 (UTC)

Pablothepenguin, if an article does not exist, then neither does an article talk page. Cullen328 (talk) 03:22, 21 February 2025 (UTC)

Follow up on unconstructive edit subject

This is a follow up to the unconstructive edit subject a few days ago. I have tried to talk to the Wikipedia editor in question and he has barely spoken to me which I deem disrespectful. What should I do?

By the way, this is about a 2025 Asian Winter Games edit on the medal table about Uzbekistan and North Korea (both countries had links to back them up being their) and the record amount of countries getting medals. ILoveSport2006 (talk) 22:36, 20 February 2025 (UTC)

For convenience, here is a link: Wikipedia:Help_desk/Archives/2025_February_16#Unconstructive_edit. See also User_talk:Sportsfan_1234#My_edit. Polygnotus (talk) 22:44, 20 February 2025 (UTC)

Induction sealing photo

Induction sealing and 3 other pages use this photo: File:Induction sealed bottle.jpg It is 144 × 108 pixels. Can someone please take a better picture and put it in the articles? Thanks! Polygnotus (talk) 22:41, 20 February 2025 (UTC)

Induction sealed bottle 2025

Polygnotus, I hope that you like this photo that I just took. Cullen328 (talk) 23:08, 20 February 2025 (UTC)

Cullen328 Thank you that is perfect! So many pixels! From 15.000 to 10 million pixels is a huge improvement. Polygnotus (talk) 23:14, 20 February 2025 (UTC)

February 21

Templates for references

Hi

Where can I find templates used to mark references as dodgy? I.e. the referenced publication does not contain what the editor suggests it does?

TIA Fob.schools (talk) 08:25, 21 February 2025 (UTC)

Fob.schools, I think you want the template {{Failed verification}}. There are more templates for "dodgy references" in Category:Inline citation and verifiability dispute templates. You could also look at Wikipedia:Citation needed, which has some see also links and a navigational template for inline cleanup tags. TSventon (talk) 08:50, 21 February 2025 (UTC)

Transfer of the logo of Strong Lebanon

Hi wikis,how transfer this logo (File:Strong Republic Bloc logo.png) to Wikimedia Commons,this logo it’s a wordmark (below TOO in Lebanon) is ineligible for copyright? (Google translator) AbchyZa22 (talk) 17:34, 21 February 2025 (UTC)

AbchyZa22 you can go to Wikipedia:Requests for undeletion to request restoration of the deleted version of the file. For example see Wikipedia:Requests for undeletion#File:Logo Bormioli Rocco Group.jpg. Then you can click on the file's Export to Wikimedia Commons tab. TSventon (talk) 05:24, 22 February 2025 (UTC)

Coordinate links no longer work

I just noticed that the coordinate links on Wikipedia articles about geographical features no longer work. No matter which coordinates I click on, I always get an error message from the ToolForge site. For example, clicking on the coordinates at Jätkäsaari gave this error message:

Not found The URL you have requested, https://geohack.toolforge.org/geohack.php?pagename=J%C3%A4tk%C3%A4saari&params=60.15524_N_24.911714_E_type:landmark_region:FI-18, doesn't seem to actually exist. If you have reached this page by following a link This URL is managed by the geohack tool, maintained by Dispenser, Kolossos, Magnus Manske. Perhaps its files are on vacation, or the link you've followed doesn't actually lead somewhere useful? You might want to look at the list of tools to find what you were looking for. If you're pretty sure this shouldn't be an error, you may wish to notify the tool's maintainers (they are listed above) about the error and how you ended up here.

Other coordinate links also give this same error message, only the URL in the error varies.

Is this some kind of bug in ToolForge or Wikipedia? JIP | Talk 22:49, 21 February 2025 (UTC)

A couple of minutes ago, JIP, I clicked on the coordinates at Jätkäsaari, and (after a delay of a few more seconds than usual) was taken to the expected page of links to Jätkäsaari on a host of maps. -- Hoary (talk) 03:14, 22 February 2025 (UTC)

Hoary, this has been reported again by Dogru144 and I got the error message when I clicked on the coordinates at Jätkäsaari. TSventon (talk) 06:53, 22 February 2025 (UTC)

It seems to be intermittent, TSventon. Really, it worked for me, when I said it did. I tried it again a few minutes ago and it worked near instantaneously -- but then of course I realized that this was probably because I was just accessing some cache. So I tried it for Tallinn and Stockholm, and sure enough it didn't work (just as JIP said it didn't). -- Hoary (talk) 07:00, 22 February 2025 (UTC)

I agree it's intermittent. The problem has been raised at Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)#GeoHack down?, apparently This external tool is maintained by volunteers, hopefully they get around to it. TSventon (talk) 07:13, 22 February 2025 (UTC)

February 22

Citing an Army Court of Criminal Appeals decision

I am trying to fix one of the citations on suicide of Danny Chen. The citation for "on appeal, the Army Court of Criminal Appeals dismissed...discharging him with a Bad Conduct Discharge" is a bare URL. The link previously led to some sort of court decision. (It now leads to a history page, but thankfully, it has been saved on the Wayback Machine.) I want to fill out this citation, but as I have absolutely no experience with law or legal matters, I have no idea how to cite it. I do not even know which citation template to use. Still-Can't-Believe-It's-Not-Butter (talk) 02:44, 22 February 2025 (UTC)

Still-Can't-Believe-It's-Not-Butter I tried {{cite court}} and put opinion=ARMY 20120804

Wikipedia code <ref>{{cite court |litigants=United States v. Ryan J. Offutt |litigants-force-plain= |vol= |reporter= |opinion=ARMY 20120804 |pinpoint= |court=United States Army Court of Criminal Appeals |date=22 October 2014 |url=https://www.jagcnet.army.mil/Portals/Files/ACCAOther.nsf/SD/9A3C04D4E233CC1885257D7E006DD210/$FILE/sd-offutt,%20rj.pdf |quote= |postscript= |archive-date=29 December 2016 |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20161229233338/https://www.jagcnet.army.mil/Portals/Files/ACCAOther.nsf/SD/9A3C04D4E233CC1885257D7E006DD210/$FILE/sd-offutt,%20rj.pdf}}</ref>

displays as

References

TSventon (talk) 06:19, 22 February 2025 (UTC)

Toolforge map emergency

When clicking on the coordinates for various places one does not get to the GeoHack page/portal to various maps like OpenStreetMap or Google Maps. There is an error note from ToolForge. When will we get access back to the GeoHack directory of maps?Dogru144 (talk) 06:05, 22 February 2025 (UTC)

@Dogru144: This problem was reported recently at #Coordinate links no longer work, so it is probably best to discuss the problem there. TSventon (talk) 06:58, 22 February 2025 (UTC)

Using CSS to block CentralNotices

Is it possible to block Central Notices via CSS? If so, how? Rockfang (talk) 06:29, 22 February 2025 (UTC)

Name Change of "Saturn S series" Article

Would attempting an article move of the "Saturn S series" article to a hypothetical "Saturn S-Series" article-- given further research fully corroborates the idea that Saturn has always internally referred to the S-Series as "S-Series" (see Talk:Saturn S series#"S-Series", not "S series" for more details, such as references to "Saturn S-Series" and "Saturn S-series" as well as potential inconsistency within Saturn)-- be appropriate or overly pedantic?

It bothers me to leave an inaccuracy there but I also recognize it probably doesn't hurt much as is.

What should be done? TheSaturnLover (talk) 06:33, 22 February 2025 (UTC)

I suggest moving the article and see what happens. It can always be moved back if necessary. Rockfang (talk) 06:38, 22 February 2025 (UTC)

Nothing. The planet is warming, the tundra is thawing, species face extinction, and fascism is on the rise. Meanwhile yours is what I think we may call a "first world problem". -- Hoary (talk) 07:08, 22 February 2025 (UTC)

Your positivity is exhilarating, Hoary. Anyway, thanks be to Rockfang, we will see what happens. TheSaturnLover (talk) 07:32, 22 February 2025 (UTC)